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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
56
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Posted - 2011.10.30 05:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
The cost of wars is a funny thing and I think it could do with some adjustment, but changing it to a flat rate, and making that flat rate as high as 100 million for a corp is just about the worst way you could change it because the only people affected by it are groups that are new or extremely small.
All that would serve to do is make it prohibitively expensive for small corps who want to get into highsec PVP to actually do it. Whatever you say about how much alliances have to pay for wars the cost for corps to declare war on other corps should remain low just so there isn't a huge, arbitrary cost hurdle for people just starting up. You have to remember people who are declaring war on folks aren't doing some nasty bad thing that needs to be prevented, they are just engaging in one of various legitimate types of gameplay available in EVE.
I'd keep the current system of cost scaling how it is but I think the base cost for corp vs corp is absurdly low, 5 or 10 as a base cost seems much more reasonable. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
56
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 06:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:I'd keep the current system of cost scaling how it is ... The problem with the current cost scaling is that it encourages people to game the system with decshields, and since CCP is not willing to police decshields, I figured it would be best to come up with a price structure/system that eliminates the need for them entirely. As to the rest of your post, re; pricing corp vs. corp. I see where you're coming from. 100M ISK is just a number. I didn't want to make it too ridiculously low. Maybe 50M ISK is a better price point. Anything less is throwaway money. The price point should be at a point where it discourages most griefdecs, but still allows for people to **** each up over actual grievances. Griefing should still be a part of the game, of course ... it shouldn't be completely inexpensive to do it though.
I don't like the dec-shield thing but a flat rate ultimately just screws over new/poor people who can't afford the higher base rate.
Also remember that wars just plain aren't griefing, moreover for a small corp with little SP, minimal prior experience and no external backing 50 million isn't a disposable sum. Its easy to declare 50 million to be a trivial amount when you see all the highsec merc/general douchebaggery corps flying around with vindicators and neutral logistics hanging out of their asses, but that isn't all there is to it, there really are just corps with a couple of low SP characters in them the owners of whom just decided one day to go shoot people in highsec, charging them 50 mil for a single dec just to even try that is way too much.
Currently anyone with a corp, a spaceship and a few isk can get into highsec wars that's good and I've seen people do exactly that, increasing the cost of that acticity by 2500% would make it less accessible to younger players and that's bad. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
56
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 07:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are still issues with putting a large flat fee on alliance war declarations. Anyone can form an alliance if they want and there's no requirement that an alliance have multiple corps in it. For example my current alliance contains 14 people only 7 on whom are active. Should it cost the same to declare war on my alliances as it costs to declare war on an alliance with thousands of people in it who are already the subject of multiple wars?
The problem there is the opposite of putting a high flat rate on corp wars. Anyone could just get themselves an alliance for a billion isk then suddenly its hugely more expensive to dec your 10 man industrial corp and because you're already not particularly attractive targets for wars (low numbers + industry = horrible waste of time and money) you've just decreased the chances of you ever experiencing war just by paying money. However for big alliances who are actually attractive targets people are already going to be willing to pay hundreds of millions of isk to fight you anyway, particularly in the case of the larger highsec war alliances who have money to burn.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
56
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 18:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:The problem there is the opposite of putting a high flat rate on corp wars. Anyone could just get themselves an alliance for a billion isk ... Your main argument against the original fees I'd outlined were to allow new low SP players to still participate in declaring wars. New, low SP players can't afford to set up alliances for 1B ISK ... and if they can, then the other fees are of no consequence. They obviously have the ISK. As well, to set up an alliance requires a substantial amount of SP to be trained. Not a lot of players are going to waste their time doing that. But if they do, more power to them.
Firstly: It requires nothing but money to create an alliance because alliance creation services exist, SP dosen't matter because you can pay someone to do the actual act for you. This is in fact exactly how my alliance was made.
You have to remember that in highsec you get quite alot of small groups of people who have alot of ISK but no defensive capability at all such as mission runners and industrialists, there are many 20-30 man corps that consist entierly of hulk/orca or CNR/Golem pilots who do very little other than make money. If you have a very high base rate for declaring war on an alliance it will be possible for these groups of people to gain a substantial level of protection from wars just by spending the money to have an alliance created.
The defensive advantaged gained from being in an alliance should come from the constituant corporations of the alliance working together for their mutual defense, not from just having paid a billion to have an extra ticker added to the end of your name. "Now it costs more to dec us" is not a good reason for an alliance to exist, alliances are meant to facilitate multiple corporations working together toward some mutual goal. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Weakness should not be its own defense. Players should be encouraged to either improve their own defensive abilities or seek alliances with people who can provide for their defense. Being unable to defend yourself should not be a means to defend yourself.
If you made SP a factor in the cost of wars then it becomes a liability for your corp to have high SP players in it and it creates a divide between high SP and low SP players so you'd easily end up with even more corps full of players who are terrible at EVE since having people who actually know about the game in your corp makes you more likely to have war declared on you. Moreover this kind of mechanic would invite alt padding to reduce average SP and the like. Create 50 trials and get them into corp to drive the cost up etc.
Additionally you have to remember that highsec wars were a feature that was added, they aren't some old mechanic that was intended for another purpose that just so happens to spill over into highsec and they aren't an a bad or undesireable type of gameplay that needs to be limited. As such you should not approach making changes to wars with the goal of protecting people from them or discouraging them in your mind.
This is a game about spaceships exploding other spaceships, it is a primarily PVP based game and we should be trying to make the experience of exploding spaceships and having your spaceship exploded better and not trying to come up with ways to make it harder for people to make other peoples spaceships explode. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
59
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 00:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sure, we can do that by removing all of the highsec space from the game. That's the only way you're going to get the people who after being presented with the options decided that they want to live in highsec to move into low/null. |
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